Read I'll Be Your Mirror: The Selected Andy Warhol Interviews Online
Authors: Kenneth Goldsmith
This “interview,” written entirely by Gerard Malanga with Andy Warhol’s knowledge and consent, was done circa
1964.
Malanga made up both the questions and answers based on having researched various industrial processes of automation, after Warhol’s famous quote “I think everybody should be a machine.” (See
G. R.
Swenson’s interview in this volume, “What is Pop Art?,” 1963
, p. 15)
–KG
Q. Do you feel that the moment of truth on automation is coming a lot sooner than most people realize?
A. I have always considered that the substitution of the internal combustion engine for automation marked a very important and exciting milestone in the progress of mankind.
Q. But what is the truth about automation?
A. You don’t have to think a lot.
Q. How do you feel about the 35,000 or more U.S. workers who are losing their jobs to machines?
A. I don’t feel sorry for them. It will give them more time to relax.
Q. Do you feel that automation has been responsible for the nation-wide coin shortage?
A. Possibly: but I hope for the coin extinction.
Q. What does the computer mean to you?
A. The computer is just another machine.
Q. Do you feel that the alternative to automation is economic suicide?
A. Absolutely not.
Q. You have said many times in the past that you, yourself, would like to be a machine. Does this mean that you sense what you are doing and are able to take over operations to correct any mistakes or initiate the next step?
A. Yes. The power of man has grown in every sphere except over himself. Never in the field of action have events seemed so harshly to dwarf personalities. Rarely in history have brutal facts so dominated thought or has such a widespread individual virtue found so dim a collective focus. The fearful question confronts us, have our problems got beyond our control? Undoubtedly, we are passing through a phase where this may be so: but this will change with the rise of automation, because mankind will understand eras and how they really open and close.
Q. Purists speak of cybernation, in which a master machine is used to run other machines, as in a factory. Using this definition would you then say that you are a Purist?
A. Not yet.
Q. Would you like to replace human effort?
A. Yes.
Q. Why?
A. Because human effort is too hard.
Q. Close-tolerance “silk-screening” involves highly skilled technicians. What would happen, let’s say, if you had the chance to acquire taped programmed machines with digital signals to guide the intricate silk-screen printing which is ordinarily done by me?
A. Everything would be done with more efficiency.
Q. Would you say that I have a property right to my job? I mean I own my job for life?
A. No.
Q. If my job vanishes into a technological limbo, won’t another open up somewhere in this “factory"?
A. Possibly. It’s all a matter of doing something else.
Q. Will I make more?
A. Yes.
Q. How will you meet the challenge of automation?
A. By becoming part of it.
Q. What will you do with all this leisure time created for you by automation?
A. Sit back and relax.
Q. Will you devote yourself to life-enhancing hobbies?
A. No.
Q. What does human judgment mean to you?
A. Human judgment doesn’t mean anything to me. Human judgment cannot exist in the world of automation. “Problems” must be “solved.” Without judgment there can be no problems.
Q. Are you patient with little solutions and try to get as many as you can so they’ll add up to something?
A. What I try to do is to avoid solving problems. Problems are too hard and too many. I don’t think accumulating solutions really add up to something. They only create more problems that must be solved.
Q. Do you, then, feel that we’re moving into a period, most probably a permanent period, where the main characteristic of the world will be change?
A. Change is the same without being different. We live in a world where we do not notice change: therefore what does change only enhances itself a little more each day.
Q. Dissect the meaning of automation.
A. Automation is a way of making things easy. Automation just gives you something to do.
In 1965, David Ehrenstein, a recent high school graduate, found himself attending numerous underground film screenings in New York City. He was beginning to write film criticism and frequently met and conversed with Warhol at screenings of Andy’s films. On the suggestion of Film Culture editor Jonas Mekas, Ehrenstein was given a chance to interview Warhol. He decided to take a three-tiered approach: “I went over to the Factory one day just to hang out to get a feel for what was going on there. I then came back the next day to do the interview; and went back a third to hang out some more!’
On the day of the interview, the Factory was in full, mid-week swing: Screen Tests were being filmed of the poet Ted Berrigan and the painter Joe Brainard; a 45 rpm version of The Rolling Stones’ “Time Is On My Side” was blasting out of the stereo; and all day long various people came and went trying to pitch Warhol projects, including a young French-Canadian named “Rock” who had unsuccessfully tried several times to take his life (“Rock” became the star of Warhols film Suicide [1965] mentioned in the interview. The film, which consists of close-ups of “Rock’s” scarred wrists along with his descriptions of his various suicide attempts, was never shown due to legal threats by it’s subject).
The interview took place during the entire day, as Ehrenstein followed Warhol around the Factory, turning on the tape recorder at various times to catch snippets of conversation. “What I wanted to do was to be there in the Factory and ask him questions in the course of whatever happened to be going on at the moment”
Warhol’s enthusiasm in this interview for the just-opened film Sylvia is of note due to his interest in the film’s star, Carroll Baker. Baker’s impersonation of Jean Harlow in Harlow (1965) had helped inspire Warhols first sound movie, Harlot (1965), starring Mario Montez seductively devouring several bananas. Carroll Baker subsequently starred in Warhols Bad (1976), directed by Jed Johnson.
–KG
DAVID EHRENSTEIN: What was the first movie you ever saw or remember seeing and what did you like about it?
ANDY WARHOL: Uh .......
Three Girls Grow Up
1
and I liked it because I was so young.
DE: Who was that with?
AW: Deanna Durbin
2
.
DE: What was that?
AW: Gloria Jean
3
.
DE: What did you like about Gloria Jean?
AW: Uh ....... she just sang so nice.
DE: What recent movies have you enjoyed and why?
AW: I saw uh .......
Sylvia
4
;
that was the best movie last week and the best movie this week was. . ...uh,
Joy House
5
.
DE: What did you like about
Sylvia
?
AW: Uh ....... so much happened ....... in it.
DE: Like what in particular?
AW: It starts with her very young and she grows up and she just lives a lot .............. and dies a lot.
DE: Any outstanding things in
Sylvia
that might relate to your films?
AW: Uh ....... they’re better than mine.
DE: Really? Why?
AW: So much happens in them.
DE: What about the stars?
AW: Stars are ....... so good.
DE: You’d like to do a film with Carroll Baker?
6
AW: Uh ..... no.
DE: Why not?
AW: Uh ....... she has too much acting ability .... for me.
DE: People with acting ability are not the kind you need?
AW: No. I want real people.
DE: What films in particular do you like? Westerns? Gangster films? Musicals?
AW: Oh, like them all.
DE: How did you get started making movies?
AW: Uh ..... I don’t know. What movie did you see last week, Ted?
TED BERRIGAN:
7
We saw
Sylvia
.
AW: Really?
TB: I saw
Sylvia
in Times Square.
AW: Oh, really? What did you think about
Sylvia
?
TB: I was stunned.
AW: Really? I was stunned too.
TB: We sat in the first row.
AW: Oh, really? I sat in about the seventh. Oh, Ted, do you want to do a picture?
TB: O.K..
AW: All you have to do is ....... uh no, let’s do one without eating the banana ....... uh yeah, that’s an old movie ....... just a sit-down movie.
DE: You’re making a movie now? What do you do, going about making one?
AW: Uh ....... nothing. Oh, pull that chair in so if s more out in the open. Move it over, uh ....... yeah, over there ... Yeah, just right there ..... that’s great. ..... Oh, I know. We’re going to have to do something about that chair.
DE: What are you going to ask Ted to do?
AW: Uh. Just pretend he’s not doing anything.
DE: Who in the New American Cinema do you admire?
AW: Jaaaacck Smiiiitttth.
DE: You really like Jack Smith?
8
AW: When I was little, I always ..... thought he was my best director ..... I mean, just the only person I would ever try to copy, and just .... so terrific and now since I’m grown up, I just think that he makes the best movies.
DE: What in particular do you like about his movies?
AW: He’s the only one I know who uses color . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . backwards.
DE: Why did you go into sound?
AW: It’s ....... well, it’s the only thing to do. I mean, if you’re going to make movies, you’ve got to have sound.
DE: Well, why did you make movies without sound before then? AW: It was the only kind of camera I had. DE: What about color?
AW: My first color movie will be called
Suicide
. It was last week’s a movie, but we’re shooting it this week.
DE: And that will be with?
AW: With Rock. Oh, Gerry, will you go get the film for the color movie? Can you get the checkbook and . . .. yeah, and I’ll write you a check.
DE: Do you know exactly how many movies you’ve made?
AW: Uh, no; well, we did a movie a week.
DE: How do you keep track of them all–or don’t you?
AW: Uh, we don’t keep track of them.
DE: Do you consider yourself a documentary film-maker?
AW: I don’t know.
DE: Which of your films are you most satisfied with?
AW:
Screen Test
and
Couch
.
DE: Why?
AW: I don’t know why. Why do you like them, Gerry?
GERARD MALANGA: Because sitting in the couch this morning, it made me feel like it was a human being. It was a whole living thing in itself, the couch.
DE: What about
Screen Test?
GM: Uh ....... no comment.
DE: Uh, could we ask him about the movie?
AW: Oh, yeah. Ted Berrigan?
DE: Ted Berrigan, what about the movie you just did?
TB: What about it?
DE: Did you like what you did?
TB: Sure, it was wonderful.
DE: You said tears were coming into your eyes.
TB: I was looking at the light to see what it looks like and . . . It was all really wonderful; I just loved myself every second. I looked at the camera and the light made it look like a big blue flower. And so I looked at it until the flower effect wore off and then I looked at the light for a few minutes until it came on again.
DE: Which of your films are you least satisfied with?
AW: Well, the other one that didn’t come out was John And Ivy, but only because the film ...... the look of it or something. There were a lot of complicated things happening.
DE: What do you hope to do in films?
AW: Well, just find interesting things and film them. We can ask Joe some thing, he’s very good. Joe, is this the first movie you ever making?
JOE BRAINARD:
9
I did movies with Ron Padgett.
10
Ron Padgett makes movies.
AW: Oh, where are they?
TB: He has them.
AW: Oh, really? Could you bring that chair over here?
DE: The New American Cinema seems very much immersed in the 30’s and the early 40’s. What about you?
AW: The early 10’s. That was about when movies were just starting.
DE: Do you like Edison?
AW: I like Edison. Oh, do I like Edison!
DE: Has Edison been a big influence on you?
AW:. Oh, yes.
DE: What new plans do you have? Anything new from what you’ve been doing?
AW: Musicals.
DE: Who will write the music?
AW: We don’t know yet. The first musical will be tap dancing.
DE: Do you have any regrets?
AW: No.
1
Three Smart Girls Grow Up
(1939). Directed by Henry Koster.
2
Deanna Durbin. Actress, b. 1921.
3
Gloria Jean. Actress, b. 1927.
4
Sylvia
(1965). Directed by Gordon Douglas.
5
Joy House
(USA release, 1965). Made in 1964 as
Les Felins
(France). Directed by Rene Clement. Starring Alain Delon and Jane Fonda.
6
Carroll Baker. Actress, b. 1931.
7
Ted Berrigan. Poet, 1934-1983.
8
Jack Smith. Filmmaker, 1932-1989.
9
Joe Brainard. Visual artist and poet, 1942-1994.
10
Ron Padgett. Poet, b. 1942.