The Collected Works of Chögyam Trungpa: Volume Seven (83 page)

Question:
Sir, you mentioned the word
spaciousness.
Could you say more about what you mean by spaciousness?

Vajracharya:
Spaciousness could be nonaggression and observing situations, so you can see the situation thoroughly. Also the spaciousness brings inspiration. If you don’t allow space in your execution of art, sometimes you run into a brick wall and you’re suddenly alarmed at your ignorance and don’t know what to do about it and you panic. Then you might be too embarrassed to give up, so you do it badly. So spaciousness, and room to move about would help tremendously. It’s the inspiration, and inspiration could grow out of being spacious.

Q:
You talked about presenting ourselves on a plate when we do a work of art. What is it that makes it so reflective?

V:
Well, I think it’s a general commonsense situation. If you don’t have some discipline in your state of mind, then you’re going to produce confusion, rather than orderliness. And that doesn’t necessarily mean to say that people who study ikebana have to sit and meditate but they could use the shamatha-vipashyana principles in their study, in their work. In doing so one begins to realize chaos, boredom, inadequacy, and all the rest of it. So one then begins to develop some sense of humor.

[
In critiquing a student arrangement:
]

The whole point is that each arrangement has to have a conquering quality, spacious quality. And the flowers, if I may say so, shouldn’t stare at you but should be placed as they have grown. It seems that the whole principle is based on creating space. And at the same time the arrangement can be bold and striking. So one shouldn’t be too tentative and one also shouldn’t be too fascinated by the little beauty that exists in the branches. One should cut the imperfections that exist in the branches.

Art of Simplicity

“DISCOVERING ELEGANCE”

This interview was conducted by José Argüelles and Rick Fields during the “Discovering Elegance” exhibit at the LAICA Gallery in Los Angeles December 1980.

José Argüelles:
Could you tell us what dharma art is, especially in relationship to “Discovering Elegance”?

Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche:
Dharma art is the principal way we are trying to create enlightened society, which is a society where there is no aggression, and where people could discover their innate basic goodness and enlightened existence, whether it is in a domestic or political or social situation.

I suppose at the beginning, when someone enters the environment of the exhibit, there might be some sense of confusion and awe and bewilderment. But at the same time, people begin to find that they are in a world which is very soft and elegant and workable. They begin to enjoy the beauty of the things that we have displayed here. So the starting point seems to be that there is a natural beauty and elegance that people have wished to see for a long time, and which they see manifested in this exhibit.

At the same time, they could realize that they don’t have to spend too much money to create such an elegant world. They could create an elegant world without a great deal of expenditure: rather, the elegance and precision come from their upbringing of mindfulness.

JA:
In this exhibit, you have arranged rooms containing flower arrangements, calligraphy, Japanese swords—many things that people probably wouldn’t have in their ordinary environment. How would such people say, “This is my world, too?”

CTR:
Well, this may not be the world that people are used to, but at the same time, they might have the desire to become part of this particular world of elegance.

A similar thing happens when you go shopping, when you go to the grocery, when you buy new clothes—with anything you do; you look for something that you would like to include in your world, in order to elegantize it. If you go out shopping, you might buy new shampoo and new soap or new pants. The exhibit can work in the same way, attracting people to a new vision of elegance.

JA:
How does the heaven, earth, and man principle come into play in the show here?

CTR:
The heaven aspect is a sense of vastness. There is lots of room and spaciousness. Earth is that things are grounded, at the same time. They are not heady, so to speak. The man principle is that human beings can join in and participate in the principle of heaven, earth, and man.

Rick Fields:
Rinpoche, you mentioned that dharma art is nonaggressive. One of your installations is a drum room that contains many weapons and a set of Japanese armor. How can a display of weaponry be nonaggressive?

CTR:
It is a question of how you relate with your teeth and your nails and the expression on your face, which are basic to man’s existence. Human beings have a question about how they can actually handle that kind of situation.

Specially produced weapons, such as swords and bows and arrows, are not particularly a problem at all. The whole question of weapons is basically a question of not being afraid of having sharp teeth, or long nails. It is not a question of creating warfare as such, but of overcoming your own cowardice.

As we know, it has been said that if you are placed among warriors, and you are a coward, you are constantly petrified because the warriors are carrying weaponry and you are expected to carry a weapon as well. It is a question of not being able to use your weapon properly. You are so frightened of your own weapon, you are afraid that you might trip over it or step on it, that you might kill yourself with it.

The question here is how to overcome cowardice so that your handling of weaponry is free from accidents of any kind, so that you don’t kill anybody by accident or by mindlessness or by cowardice. Once the warrior knows how to use the weapon properly, there is no particular problem at all. The weapon begins to become an adornment.

JA:
Adornment? Part of what you beautify yourself with?

CTR:
That’s right. It is as much adornment as having nice teeth because you go to the dentist, or having nice fingernails because you go to a manicurist.

We could say that when women wear makeup, it is not supposed to be only an inducement of other people’s passion, constantly all the time. The purpose of putting on makeup is not purely to express sexuality alone, or to degrade or seduce somebody: the point is that women actually should look nice and beautify themselves.

JA:
As an art critic coming to your installation, I find it a fantastically beautiful show. I rarely see something like this done. I was curious how you as an artist feel about having done the show?

CTR:
I don’t think particularly in terms of being an artist. I regard myself as just a day-to-day person. Just like everyone else, I dress myself, I brush my teeth. I just do all those details of life expansively.

JA:
Expansively?

CTR:
Yes. I don’t regard my life purely as a manifestation of a work of art, particularly. I don’t consider myself as an artist per se, at all. I don’t regard myself as the author of this exhibition, obviously, but I feel very good about it, nonetheless. I am more proud of and pleased with the people around me, who have created the environment, than I am with myself.

JA:
Do you see art as a way of working with obstacles?

CTR:
Obstacles, yes, as well as organization. A lot of administration goes with art. It is like the administration that goes into organizing Vajradhatu. That is part of art as well.

JA:
So you are speaking about a collective work of art. Usually in the West we think of artists as working alone.

RF:
Yes, that’s an interesting point. Here you’ve been working with such a large group of people, and there have been all sorts of administrative problems as well as the basic problems of Los Angeles—traveling huge distances and various hassles. Yet out of that has come this exhibit, which projects tranquillity and harmony.

CTR:
Actually, I appreciate working with other people very much. As you know, a lot of the students who have worked on the exhibit are Buddhist practitioners. They also have an interest in practicing art—ikebana and other disciplines like that.

As they begin to know how to organize art and how to handle themselves properly, then they are also reassured that they can create enlightened society. That seems to be the main point. The exhibit is not so much a one-man show, which would be dictatorial, but it is a group show organized by one person, myself. This group approach creates enlightened society, which seems to be the enlightened idea of a monarchy—one person makes a beginning, and then the rest of the situation can happen organically.

JA:
One last question. Often we think of a work of art in connection with some romantic inspiration. What you were talking about a few minutes ago is art in relation to organization. Could you say a little bit more about art as organization rather than something heard from the muse.

CTR:
Yes. It’s a question of a group inspiration being put together. We are not talking about art as creating one painting on one canvas alone. We are also talking about how that canvas, that painting, is displayed. There is a particular gallery to put that canvas in, as well as a lot of other canvases. So a person can see the whole orchestration of an entire world being put together.

That is the point: otherwise a work of art is singled out, as just one thing, like taking a Rolex watch and hiding it in your pocket to smuggle it through customs. Art should have its own environment altogether, its own entire world altogether, which beautifies the world, basically speaking.

JA:
Art creates the environment, the world, through collective effort, and vision creates the environment so that the world actually becomes more beautiful, more harmonious, more organized.

CTR:
We are trying to help people to cheer up, so that they could have a good time at the same time.

I also would like to say, as I said already, that I am extremely appreciative of the helpers, the friends who have been helping me to make this show possible, the people who have worked on a large or small scale to create this particular installation. I’m very impressed by all of them, and very thankful to all of them. They are completely included in the enlightened kingdom.

JA:
How does the notion of simplicity relate to the elegance of dharma art?

CTR:
I think that people can find possibilities for an elegant world for themselves, without having to become millionaires who can afford to have expensive houses in Beverly Hills. People can organize their lives simply. Living in their own little apartments, they could elegantize themselves.

I think dharma art is an encouragement to upgrade even poverty-level situations. People who are poor can be elegant. That is the main point that we are making here, rather than saying that rich people should learn how to be elegant. The rich should learn how to be simple at this point. Simpler sometimes is better.

That is how monasticism began. It began in poverty, even in the Catholic tradition. Catholic monasticism acknowledges the importance of simplicity. Richer people need to bend down, much more so. They should tune into the simplicity of beauty, the beauty of living elegantly but simply.

RF:
In watching you work, both on this show and many other times, I’ve noticed the tremendous precision in what you do and lack of speed—which personally has been an inspiration to me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you in a hurry, and yet a tremendous amount happens.

CTR:
Well, I think that dharma art is a sense of paying attention to what you have, what you are, what you have available. When you pay attention, it makes things beautiful and workable, always. You have to be willing to take the time. Dharma art is being on the spot, and being precise, and appreciating what goes on around you, but also taking your time, not just simply jumping the gun. It’s being on the spot always.

Dharma Art Stresses Harmony and Elegance

Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche:
Dharma art, or art altogether, is not purely for the sake of art alone. It is inspired by the possibility of developing basic elegance and harmony and a sense of sanity.

Q:
What criteria or standards do you use to determine what is a good work of art?

CTR:
I think it is a question of whether the particular artwork creates a sense of harmony or a perception of disharmony in the room. Art can either create chaos in a room or make you feel settled in a room. It has something to do with inviting less aggression and less speed, but at the same time, it requires tremendous discipline.

Q:
Why do you think it is valuable to define those qualities as
dharma
art, particularly at this time in America, as opposed to simply art that works, art that succeeds? Why label it
dharma
art?

CTR: Dharma
is a Sanskrit word that means “basic norm.” It’s not a particularly religious term.
Dharma
is said to mean “that which creates harmony,” “that which makes things workable.” In other words, it is that which promotes harmony and dignity. So we are not necessarily talking about religion. I think that’s how it works.

Q:
Can this art be taught? Let’s say there is somebody who has absolutely no style or taste, and he wants to learn how to do dharma art. Is that possible?

CTR:
I think such a person is actually in a better position because he has nothing to unlearn to begin with. People who have no idea could start right away, while someone who has too many ideas might have to unlearn for a while.

Q:
But it can be taught?

CTR:
I think so. The details that we use are the details that exist around us. In some sense it is just common sense. It requires a lot of concentration and training—obviously, any form of art requires discipline—but it is not all that difficult to learn. It is question of synchronizing mind and body together properly, then reaching out.