Summer 2007 (5 page)

When Howard was writing
Almuric
, or the bulk of
his tales, I don’t doubt that he entered into a kind of trance that put him
right where he was writing about. Made those worlds so real to him that they
became real to us.

Maybe
Almuric
fails
to be quite as convincing as John Carter’s journey, but there was a similarity
in approach, in conviction, and had Howard continued to write in this vein,
which is just slightly to the left of his Sword and Sorcery, he would have been
very successful. In fact, a series of short books continuing in this style
might actually have solidified his career better, at least earlier on. But
Howard was all over the map. Sword and Sorcery, Westerns, crime stories, horror
stories, you name it, he wrote it. Unlike his peer, H. P. Lovecraft, he thought
being a writer meant you wrote, meant you could write when you needed to, not
just when you wanted to. He was all about making a living, being able to look
any sonofabitch in the eye and tell them to go to hell, because he didn’t need
them. It was, in a strange way, as close as Howard, the good ole boy writer
from Texas, could come to the freedom of the savage.

Column:
The Life and Work of Godfrey Winton: A Panel Discussion on One
of Science Fiction’s Lost Masters

Panelists:
Sarah Monette, Nick Sagan, John
Scalzi

Panel at Penguicon 5.0, Troy Michigan, April 21, 2007

–PANEL TRANSCRIPT BEGINS –

John Scalzi:
All right, we’re going to go ahead
and start this panel. I’d like to thank all of you for coming. I realize those
of you in the back are feeling like you’re a little cramped and crowded, but
just kind of squeeze in. One of the nice things about the room is that it does
have oxygen monitors, so if things begin to get a little too heated, or the
oxygen level drops, thing will come down from the ceiling, and then just attach
them to your mouth. You know how that works.
We’re here to discuss
Godfrey Winton, who is sometimes celebrated, sometimes neglected…

Sarah
Monette:
Sometimes vilified…

JS:
: Sometimes vilified.
Actually more than sometimes.

Nick Sagan:
Often.

JS:
:
Often vilified. Unfairly, some say, though others do disagree. Now, one of the
great things is that in discussing Godfrey Winton, when I first met with the
Penguicon people about this, I said I really want to have this panel, and
Matthew, who is the programming guy, said, well, we’re in luck, because we have
three of the greatest Godfrey Winton scholars attending. One of them of course
is me, I’m John Scalzi, but we also have Nick Sagan, who knows a little bit
about his time in Hollywood and doing movies, and we also have Sarah Monette,
who knows quite a bit about him on a textual level, and we’re really looking
forward to getting into that. The fourth major Winton scholar is of course Chip
Delaney; he’s not here because he owes me money. One day, he and I are going to
have an accounting about that, but today is not that day.
Anyway, let’s
begin. Let’s begin by talking, to start, about the fact that there are so many
misconceptions about who he is, what he did, or even what he looked like. Now,
Nick, I know you actually have a little bit of personal history with Godfrey
Winton.

NS:
Well, I really don’t claim to be an expert or scholar
on Godfrey, but I am probably the only person on this panel to have sat on his
lap.

JS:
: Okay.

NS:
Because my parents used to throw
dinner parties back in the 70s, and I had this very kind of “Jonny Quest”
upbringing, with scientists and science fiction writers. Godfrey was a frequent
guest, along with Isaac Asimov, Francis Ford Coppola and other people, sort of
an odd mix, and he was my “Uncle Godfrey.” And so my memories of him are as
this sort of towering figure, with a moustache. This is all from the memory of
a three-year-old. I mean, if I sat in his lap when I was eighteen, this would
be a very different story.

JS:
: It would definitely be a very
different story, and probably a more salable one.

NS:
Probably. It
would also probably scar me.

JS:
: Right. Exactly. Some things are
better left unsaid; unfortunately, this panel is not about those things.

NS:
This is very true.

JS:
: So, we should move on. The first
thing I actually want to address is that in the description of the panel, one
of the things that is noted, and this is in the first line, so let’s talk about
the misperceptions, it mentions that he had eleven Nebulas, and twenty-six
Hugos. This is a common misperception, which of course he actively promoted
while he was still alive.

SM:
Well, yes.

JS:
:
Exactly. Sarah, can you talk a little about this? For example, the Nebulas,
which weren’t actually Nebulas at all.

SM:
Well, no. There were a
number of science fiction associations in the United States, many which had
their own awards, which they give out every year, like you do. One them
happened to be called the “Nebular.”

JS:
: The Nebular.

SM:
The Nebular.

JS:
: With an “R.”

SM:
With an “R.”
There was an unfortunate glitch in a convention program and the “r” was left
off, and of course Winton, being Winton…

JS:
: He never bothered
to correct.

SM:
Actively resisted correcting. Oh yes.

NS:
He might as well take advantage of it if he can.

JS:
: I
suppose, I suppose.

NS:
He was always an opportunist.

JS:
: So the eleven Nebulas are, in fact, Nebular awards. Do we even know what
science fiction association this was?

SM:
Not one that is
currently active. One of the many great schisms of Midwestern fandom in the
1960s.

JS:
: Oh, yes, that’s right. Was it Des Moines? Or was it
Iowa City?

SM:
It may have been Cedar Rapids.

JS:
:
And that’s just a perfect example. Obviously, he’s proud of these awards, he
wants to promote them but at the same time, Nebula, Nebular…

NS:
Funiculì,
Funiculà…

JS:
: Right, exactly. Tomato, Tomatoe.

NS:
Let’s
call the whole thing off.

JS:
: No, we can’t. We still have forty
minutes.
The other thing is that I want to clarify about the Hugos. Now,
it is true he won quite a few Hugos, perhaps more than quite possibly he
deserved. But the thing that is really interesting to note about the Hugos
– well, there are a couple things. As we all know, the Hugo lineup has
not been fixed over the 50, 60 years that they’ve existed; I mean, we all know
that Robert Silverberg once won the Hugo for Best New Writer. There is no
longer any Hugo for Best New Writer, which is of course a crying shame, and now
we have the Campbell Award. But there have been other awards that have come and
gone.
At the same time there’s also the thing where each Worldcon gets to
create its own category. What is not often know is that Godfrey Winton had
quite a lot of friends who were Worldcon attendees, and he did quite a lot of
planning so that he could create categories for which he was, indeed, almost
uniquely suited. And so, for example, in the stretch of time in which he was
active, in the 50 and the 60s, he won some idiosyncratic Hugos.

SM:
That’s
a good word, John. That’s a nice word.

JS:
: For example, he has
the Hugo for the Best Punctuated Novel. He has the one for Most Enthusiastic
Writer. Best Enjoyment of Dairy Products – I believe that was a Worldcon
that was held in St. Louis, so there was an agricultural theme there. Here is
an interesting one, and I think you can speak a little to this one, Nick: He
won the Hugo for Most Likely to Get Into a Bitter Argument with Isaac Asimov.

NS:
Oh, yes. Yes. Well. There was a very longstanding feud with Isaac, where
they did not get along at all, and actually it was a source of a lot of bad
blood at the dinner parties they went to. One illustration of this I remember:
My dad, my mom got Godfrey and his second wife, I think it was Cathy…

JS:
: Cathy? Cathy’s the third wife. His third wife.

NS:
Okay. I
can’t keep the chronologies straight.

JS:
: Jessica is the second
wife. Cathy’s the third wife.

NS:
Right.

JS:
: She’s
also the sixth wife.

NS:
Yeah.

JS:
: Also the ninth.

NS:
It gets messy. But as I remember, they all went to go see 2001 for the
first time, and they came out of the theater, and I remember my dad talking
about how Godfrey came out with a big, giddy smile on his face, this almost
manic look. And the only thing he said was “So much for the First Law of
Robotics!” So he did not like Isaac one bit.

JS:
: Well, Sarah,
you were the one, I believe you mentioned something about that at the librarian
level, there was some sort of bitter contest between the two to see who could
get…

SM:
…The most books published in a year. Yes. Because, of
course, Winton is known for his competitive streak. I mean, we can see that
with the Hugos. The constant scheming. And with the persistent refusal to
clarify the difference between the Nebulas and the Nebulars. So, very
competitive. And of course Isaac Asimov is tremendously prolific, astoundingly
prolific…

JS:
: Suspiciously prolific.

SM:
Even. And truly
it seems to have driven Winton almost mad that he could never catch up. He
could never write as fast as Asimov. He could never write as much as Asimov.

JS:
: I do think a part of that was the fact he would do only one type of
writing a day. And when we’re talking about doing only one type of writing a
day, we’re not talking about just writing only science fiction, for example. He
would specifically only write nouns on one day, and the next day he would go in
and fill in the verbs, and then the adjectives and so on and so forth.

SM:
An unfortunate experimental period.

JS:
: Right. And this has
problems. For one thing, he was most prolific in the time of the typewriter.
What this meant was that he would have to plan ahead where all the nouns would
be on the page. He would come back, put in all the verbs, and then go on, go
back and put in all the adjectives. And if you don’t get it right… you spend so
much time rewriting. And of course that’s where Isaac went ahead.

NS:
Was
that not, as I understand it, one of the inspirations for Mad Libs?

SM:
So Winton has always claimed.

NS:
That’s what I remember.

JS:
: This has been an argument between Winton and PSS Publishing, which are
the people who publish the Mad Libs, and had been for years. He spent tons of
money – I mean, long before Harlan Ellison was out there suing AOL.
Winton was extraordinarily litigious.

SM:
And with a competitive
streak.

JS:
: Right. So this really was a problem. Now, one of the
things that I think was interesting about the Most Likely to Get Into a Bitter
Argument with Isaac Asimov Hugo is that in fact it was a contested Hugo,
because Isaac Asimov actually won that Hugo. Which really drove Winton insane.
We went and complained; he said the fix is in, you can’t possibly get into an
argument with yourself.

NS:
But Isaac, if you know Isaac, he
certainly could.

SM:
Au contraire, Godfrey.

JS:
:
Right, Right. So this went round and round and round, and I believe it went all
the way to the very top of World Science Fiction Society, to the clandestine
meetings of which we have only sketchy details of, because they were not
supposed to take notes, and it turns out that he did manage to get that
overturned. And indeed that was the final straw between Asimov and Winton for
many many years, until, of course, their death bed reconciliation, when Winton
was right at the end. But let’s not get into that. I do want to point out one
more Hugo, which he was nominated for an won, which was for Loudest Clothes
Hugo.

SM:
Clearly only because he did not have to compete with
David Hartwell.

JS:
: It’s funny you mention that, because he did,
in fact, compete with a young David Hartwell.

SM:
Oh! Not in his
prime.

JS:
: Not in his prime. He hadn’t reached his stride yet.
This was the first of many Hugo nominations – and sadly, failures –
for David Hartwell, up until last year. Indeed, I think if you ask David
Hartwell, he would tell you Winton was an inspiration in so many ways –
one, if you’re only doing verbs one days and nouns the next, you do actually
learn something about editing. I do believe Hartwell did go back and study
those texts. And also the clothes.

NS:
I would like to point out
that although we are painting a picture of Godfrey as a bitter, deranged
individual, he did have a sense of humor about himself.

JS:
: Oh,
sure. He’s the sort of person who you wouldn’t mind putting your child in his
lap.

NS:
Yes, well. That’s another story. All I know, and you can
correct me if this is untrue, is that before he started winning Hugos, he was
so obsessed with it that he made a joke out of it – he wouldn’t drive
himself, because he was very frightened of cars. But he had a driver named
Hugo, and he would bring him around and say, have you seen my Hugo? Which was
kind of a nice way to poke fun at the fact that he hadn’t won the big one.

JS:
: The funny thing is that after he won the Hugo, he fired Hugo. And then
his next driver was Oscar.

NS:
That’s right. But nothing ever came
of that.

JS:
: No. You can’t go to the well more than once.
I
want to talk a little bit about his novels. One of the things that was very
interesting about Winton was that as with many science fiction authors, he
didn’t make a lot of money writing science fiction.

SM:
Because
you can’t.

JS:
: Because you can’t. Even today it’s very
difficult. And of course he had the various day jobs; I remember you, Nick,
saying that he spent some time at JPL.

NS:
Yes.

JS:
:
And we’ll get to that in a minute.

SM:
He was very proud of his
stint well-digging in Maine. He claimed it gave him more material for his books
than any ten years of college.

JS:
: It’s true. One of the
interesting things about Maine is that its water table is so random because the
rock shelf, it makes it actually very hard to farm there, and makes it hard to
dig wells, so you do end up building some character. I would assume.

SM:
Yes, although unfortunately not an ability to dowse.

JS:
: No,
and that did become a problem. He was run out of El Paso, I think, because of
that. Is that right? In ’56? ’57?

SM:
Was it El Paso?

JS:
: Was it El Paso?

SM:
Yes. Yes, it was El Paso. In ’55.

JS:
: The Great Drought of ’55. That’s right. He claimed to be a dowser.

SM:
To be fair to Winton, he was at that point extremely hard up.

JS:
:
Yes. The things that you will do. And I believe he was exchanging his dowsing
skills for, what was it? Two goats, and…

SM:
Piano lessons.

JS:
: …A piano lesson, that’s right. And he actually took delivery of the piano
lesson. Although not of the goats. Which was good, because he was ridden out on
a rail, and it’s hard to take goats with you.