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Authors: Robert B. Silvers

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Yakovlev is an expert on America, and they say that his books on historical topics are not bad at all. But those who know him also say that he is cynical in the extreme, that his motto is that the Soviet regime is so abominable that one can and must be a scoundrel, that everybody must become a scoundrel. Such is Yakovlev’s position, and he practices it in real life perfectly well.

TOLZ: Natalya Viktorovna, could you say something concerning the reaction of Soviet citizens—in Gorky, in particular—to the defamation campaign against Sakharov and his wife, which has now been intensified?

HESSE: Yes. The letter written by four Academy members against Andrei Dmitrievich has played a certain role, although not a very big one, within the context of the campaign of defamation and slander that has been unleashed against him and particularly against Elena Georgievna. I think that the West is of the opinion that it was the letter from these four academicians that played the principal part. (However, even among Academy members one can find people who would burden their conscience with heavy sins for the sake of their careers. And these four academicians, in particular, are known for being go-getters ready to do anything.)

But in Gorky itself the campaign—it was unleashed mainly in Gorky—was provoked not by the letter, which was published somewhere in the corner of a newspaper, but by the fact that the Gorky papers reprinted all of Yakovlev’s insinuations concerning Elena Georgievna and, furthermore, added their own commentaries. Since then, at somebody’s command, an extremely vicious campaign has been organized. The Sakharovs were even afraid to go to the bakery because they would be insulted. People would holler at them: “Your Yid-wife must be killed.”

A neighbor in the Sakharovs’ house had been helped by Elena Georgievna, who is a pediatrician (a very good pediatrician, an excellent physician), when the neighbor’s child was suffering from an allergy which physicians in Gorky were unable to cure. Elena Georgievna did help the child with her advice, and the child was cured. And this same neighbor used to cry: “It would have been better for my child to rot than to be touched by your dirty hands.”

The Sakharovs’ car would be covered with graffiti: “Warmonger, get away from here, away from our town!” This seemed to them (and I have discussed this at length with both of them) to be a spontaneous wave of wrath on the part of the people. But whenever I asked Elena
Georgievna to describe each incident in detail, her story would always expose some “stage director” who was behind each particular horrible act.

It is very easy to arouse indignation in our country. Indignation is fostered by the hardships of everyday life, by the lines in front of the stores, by the whole drabness and oppressiveness of Soviet reality, which is very hard. Therefore it is sufficient to make just a little hole, to open up the valve just a bit, and one can direct the stream of hate and bitterness any way one wants to. When people are standing in a line, it is enough for someone to shout: “It’s not his turn!” or “Don’t give him two kilos instead of one!” and the crowd will release its anger upon the unfortunate victim. Thus it is a very simple task to orchestrate something like that.

TOLZ: Natalya Viktorovna, it is known that Elena Georgievna Bonner does not stay in Gorky with her husband all the time and that she is obliged to come regularly to Moscow. What is her situation there? What is her general situation now?

HESSE: The conditions at their apartment in Moscow became quite terrible after Andropov took over all the positions and jobs that he assumed. Now, in addition to two policemen posted at the entrance to the apartment itself (and it must be noted that whereas in Gorky they are ordinary policemen, in Moscow either senior lieutenants or captains are on duty at the entrance to the apartment upstairs), there is also a police car with flashing lights guarding the downstairs entrance, and the man in charge has the rank of major at least.

It is amusing that these policemen in turn are watched over by KGB agents in civilian clothes who make sure that the policemen dutifully carry out their mission. They all have portable radio sets on their shoulders, and they communicate with each other. All visitors
are checked against a special list. If a stranger tries to pass through and his name is not on the list, he must show his documents, and if he does not have any, he is simply not allowed in. No foreigners and no journalists are allowed to visit the apartment.

The telephone at the Moscow apartment has been disconnected ever since Andrei Dmitrievich’s illegal exile to Gorky, and whenever Elena Georgievna comes to Moscow they disconnect even the public telephone in the booth downstairs so that in order to call someone she has to walk almost a kilometer up a very steep hill, which is practically impossible because of her heart condition. All in all, Elena Georgievna’s health is in a terrible state. She has not yet recovered from her first heart seizure; she takes up to forty nitroglycerine pills; her lips and fingernails are of a dark blue color. It is upsetting to look at her.

When she came to Moscow the last time, she wanted to come to Leningrad to see me off, but I went to Moscow myself instead because I learned from friends about the state of her health, and it was clear that no farewell parties were possible. It was at this time that she suffered her second heart seizure, not having been completely cured after the first one.

In general, both of them are denied medical help. Andrei Dmitrievich himself also has been in need of a medical checkup and treatment for a long time, and this was admitted by the physicians from the Academy of Sciences who visited Sakharov in Gorky that one and only time. We had some hope then that things would improve; but, like all our hopes, this one was also destroyed. Neither she nor he has been admitted to a hospital, although both are seriously ill and in desperate need of medical treatment.

And they cannot allow themselves to be treated by physicians in
Gorky. These physicians displayed their true nature sufficiently during the Sakharovs’ hunger strike. Other physicians at the Arsenal Hospital in Leningrad—it’s a prison hospital—once proudly said that they are first and foremost “Chekists”
3
and physicians only afterward. Well, those Gorky doctors, not being professional Chekists, nevertheless behaved as if they were, and it is therefore impossible to trust them and to be treated by them.

Once Andrei Dmitrievich was forced to go to a dentist because he had a toothache (and in such a case a person is willing to go anywhere), and the head of the dental clinic deceived him. She ordered him to leave his briefcase with his precious documents and manuscripts, and then personally turned the briefcase over to KGB agents. I think this incident is known in the West, but it may not be known that she then denied him medical treatment, claiming that he had insulted her—both as a woman and as a citizen. It was naturally very strange to hear such words coming from this particular physician.

As I have already mentioned, Elena Georgievna is being denied proper medical assistance in Moscow. A young woman who recently graduated from a medical institute visits her at home. I’ve been present during many of her visits. She respectfully and, I would even say, piously listens to advice from Elena Georgievna, who is a physician herself. Elena Georgievna writes her own prescriptions and decides her own treatment. Nevertheless, she urgently needs hospitalization because her condition is becoming ever more serious and her strength is leaving her—the strength that seemed to be inexhaustible. “Constant dripping of water wears away the stone,” as we say in Russia. But in this case there were not drops but heavy blows on the stone and it has begun to break. During our last meeting Andrei Dmitrievich
said: “The first thing to be done, the most important thing, is to force the authorities to allow Elena Georgievna to travel abroad for medical treatment. Tell the people you’ll meet in the West that her death would be the end of me also. And being an eyewitness to all that has been happening, I can state that she is on the verge of dying, this is the truth.”

We must do everything possible. I don’t know, maybe the general public in the West must appeal to their elected deputies so that they, in turn, would raise the question in their respective parliaments. This is very important, especially now that we have a new ruler. He might show his good will and prove to the world that the Soviet Union is really ready to do good and not evil.

TOLZ: Natalya Georgievna, the campaign against Sakharov has been continuing for a long time, but it was especially intensified during the period that has now come to an end—the “Andropov era.” Tell me, in your opinion, in the opinion of a person who left the Soviet Union only days ago—did the situation in the country change during the Andropov period?

HESSE: The regime became extremely harsh. It began with mass roundups of people in the streets, and in every city indignant people were told by agitators at meetings that these were only excesses on the local level. But the same thing was going on all over the Soviet Union, just as it was during collectivization. And, in general, the whole moral and spiritual climate in the country became much harsher. It seems that it is difficult to breathe—just as it was in Stalin’s time. This is a frightening feeling and it affects a person’s whole being. The food situation in large cities has improved but the provinces remain hungry. In the large cities—in Leningrad, in particular—one can get meat, not always the kind one wants, of course, but
we became accustomed to this long ago. Sometimes one can get butter without standing in line.… So, it is somewhat better in this sense. But, on the other hand, there is complete suppression of everything, and not a gleam of democracy.

—April 12, 1984

1.
CIA-Target–The USSR
was published in English by Progress Publishers (Moscow, 1982).

2.
Interviewer’s note:
At another point Hesse said she had been told that the editor who had allegedly been working on Yakovlev’s books asked him once, “Nikolai Nikolaievich, where do you get material for your abominable articles?” And Yakovlev said, “Does one need any sources for this?”

3.
Members of the Cheka, as the secret police was formerly called.

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